OS X Lion Bullshit Thread...
From the original Analog Industries archive. Some links and images from that era no longer resolve.
I am in the process of installing Lion right now, and will update this post throughout the day with my findings. If you’re in a mission-critical situation and you’re updating your main working machine to Lion, and you have problems, you only have yourself to blame, and I have no sympathy for you. Let me take the pain, so you don’t have to.
9:24 AM About halfway through the download; it is coming slow. I’ve seen quite a bit of anecdotal evidence about major issues, but the only actual report I’ve seen from a major audio dev is Native Instruments, who say this.
9:43 AM Ableton just posted this. Still downloading.
10:33 AM Downloaded. I’m waiting for Time Machine to finish its snapshot before installing, though.
11:33 AM Running Lion. The fucking trackpad scrolls the wrong way. FUCK!
11:57 AM Did a first round of tests with Live. If you only use VSTs, it seems to work okay. If you use audio (loops, clips), MIDI, or AUs, it crashes almost instantly.
12:11 PM Just did a quick test of Max/MSP 5. Loaded two patchers. One was just DSP, no samples, no externs, no VST~. The second had all three. No problems whatsoever with either one.
12:22 PM Just ran a simple test in Cubase 6 64-bit with all 32- and 64-bit AD products and some audio files. Works fine on cursory examination. No problems to report.
12:43 PM Ran a cursory check in both 64-bit and 32-bit Logic. I ran 64-bit first, so it scanned all our 64-bit products, and everything seemed to be fine. I then ran the 32-bit version to scan the 32-bit products, and BigSeq (the original one) and Ricochet both failed AU Validation. A few other AUs failed as well, notably FM8. Other than that, Logic seems fine, although I am in no way a power user of that DAW like I am with Cubase, Live, and Max, so while it seems fine, that should in no way be taken to mean that it is fine.
1:35 PM Did a short examination of DP 7. I don’t understand this DAW, which is the single most left-brained piece of software ever written. (I don’t have a left brain. At all.) I was able to instance every AD product, though, and all seems fine. There is a hiccup in the audio when opening/closing windows, though. This is across the board. It would rapidly drive you insane, I think. Otherwise, it seems okay with the caveat that I wouldn’t really know if it was fucking off beyond the obvious.
1:57 PM Checked energyXT. It seems to be fine. Also did a quick check of MIDI Network Sessions for Audanika, and that seems to work as usual.
Fin. I went through every DAW and plug-in I have, and on the whole, everything seems fine. Logic has some pretty big issues, which isn’t surprising considering Logic is lucky to not have big issues on a normal day, let alone when OS X gets a version rev. Live is the most surprising, as it usually gets through these pretty painlessly.
Conclusion If the hub of your digital music recording environment is Cubase 6, Max/MSP 5, DP 7, or energyXT, you’re in good shape, and shouldn’t experience any trouble. If you use NI products, expect an interminable round of Service Center updates (more than usual) but as long as you’re not 64-bit, things seem to be okay. If you use Logic, you can probably make it through your working day. If you use Live, don’t update to Lion. Period.
27 comments
So being a dev, how many instances of Windows and OS X do you have?
Should we expect a 'Fucking Lion' tweet in the future? ;)
Just one on each computer. I have several computers, though. (9 in all, or 10 if you count the Apple //e, which I most certainly do.)
-CR
no Lion for me.. not even with a ten foot poll.
BTW you can change the trackpad scroll direction in the system preferences.
No shit.
-CR
I may do the update on my MBP just to see what there is to see. The studio computer will happily stay on 10.6.7 until Avid/Digi release a version of PT that runs on Lion (hate that I have to have it on there at all, but that's my job, so...).
I kind of like it otherwise. Mail.app is slicker. The "Launchpad" is a fucking godsend. It finally turns the Dock in to something, like, useful.
Everything looks a little flatter, which is nice. Was getting tired of all that bling.
-CR
I need to figure out where it grabs 'apps' from for Launchpad. I seem to have 'Apps' in mine that shouldnt be there (because they arent installed on my computer anymore).
@ungeheier - sounds like they installed a part of windows there.
@boobs, they were games I bought on Steam. I 'uninstalled' them via Steam, and then uninstalled Steam. The games dont live in my Applications folder, so the data is being pulled from _somewhere_.
yeah.. i figured it was something like that. that's the kind of thing that always happened to me on windows. remove and app 100 times and it's still there.. somewhere.
and other quirks .
i can't see venturing into Lion for several months. can't be arsed. i'm too busy looking at the internet.
I live by the motto "If it ain't broke, don't upgrade for no reason"... and that is why I am still on 10.5.8. Shit is pretty much running the way I want and oh yeah - I use Live for EVERYTHING... While there definitely are some features I would find useful in Lion, it is not worth the risk right now.
A couple people have told me that the current beta version of Live works fine. Not too hip to try it, but I may have to.
EDIT: Just tried it. Same problems.
-CR
I'm not even going to bother with a testing partition until 10.7.1 or 10.7.2. Basically repeats an older posting from CR but I see little reason to play dev/QA when there's work to be done.
On the flipside I would actually like some of that 'flatter' look that's in 10.7. I grow tired of having to manually hack Win/OSX to minimize the UI elements to my liking.
@ungeheier - there are two applications directories, one in /Applications and one in /Users/ungeheier/Applications. The steam stuff is installed in the second one.
In DP when you open a VI or effects plugin window it is running in real time, when you close the window it is pre rendered unless you tell it not to do that. There's always a hiccup when opening and closing plugin windows because it's changing states. A trade off, but I like it. Of course you can turn all that off and just use it like any other DAW, or so I've heard.
bb
totally OT, but just letting anyone interested know i posted
a Kontakt conversion of Chris' Jaymar toy piano in the comments of that post...
I'm with boobs.
CTRL+ALT+SWORDFISH
got this from soundtoys today:
"The Lion is out of the cage and it looks like it's very cool, but...
We wanted our users to know that the current V4.1.1 version of our software is NOT working with Lion and Logic. It appears it's a minor issue with AudioUnits validation only and we are testing a version that seems to run smoothly and hope to have it available as soon as possible after confirming it's solid."
@CR: I put Lion on an external drive and used my time machine b/u to clone the rest of my crap onto it. I use Max/MSP for just about everything and wanted to check my plugins to see what worked, what broke, what crashed Max, etc. Quick report of all my AD plugs (in case my mileage varied from yours).
Automaton: plugin initialization error
BigSeq (1): works
BigSeq2: works
Discord2: works
Discord3: works
Dubstation: works
Eos: works
Replicant 1.04: works
Replicant 1.5: plugin initialization error
(Replicant 1.6 fails to install in Lion - as in, the installer itself fails)
Ricochet: works
Ronin: works
RoughRider: works
RR pro: works
I'm running this on a 2010 MBP core i7 FWIW. The hardware is an RME fireface 400 (which, btw, works fine)
Wondering what the issue might be with Replicant & Automaton? What's different about their architecture?
I'm with boobs.
...ok, I got caught by the button. You can delete that (and this) post. Sorry Chris.
final update:
I got Replicant to install (had to drop an old version back into the vst folder to upgrade it). 1.61 works.
-ear
I have a question posted to the core-audio mailing list, about this note in the Apple Technical Note TN2276:
"Important: Audio units already compiled for Mac OS X v10.6.x continue to work in Mac OS X Lion without modification."
I'm trying to determine if this means that plugins compiled with the 10.5 SDK won't work in Lion, or if having targets
I hit "save" too early, but you get the point.
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