September 12, 2007

Logic 8 First Impressions...

by Chris Randall

Just nosing around Logic 8 this morning. My initial impressions are extremely favorable. I'll have to spend some time with it to see if they actually fixed/unfixed the things that have always bothered me about it. It is intrinsically the same program; they've just put everything in one frame, instead of the usual (and quite annoying, I think) Mac Method of having floating windows and toolsets. This is fine for Photoshop, but it doesn't fucking fly in a DAW.

The Environment is most definitely not gone, so don't believe the hype, although personally, I think it's kind of a silly thing, one of those deals where you buy a car because you want to learn how to be a mechanic. But for all you people with too much time on your hands, rest assured it is in there, at least in this build. Don't know 'bout the dongle issue, as it immediately sensed and attached itself to my XS Key the second it started.

In any event, obviously I can't go in to any sort of detail, according to the NDA (I probably overstepped my bounds by putting up that tiny little screenshot) but rest assured that Steinberg and Ableton have a job on their hands. Logic 7 was a complete joke, but Apple seems to have a dog in this fight now.

EDIT: Obviously, I didn't overstep my bounds because you can buy it today. That's silly.



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Sep.12.2007 @ 2:18 PM
Well, it's completely available at the stores now [my buddy just picked up a copy at the local apple store] and you can download the manuals and spec sheets from apple's site, so shouldn't be too bad to shoot off some thoughts. Lucky me bought the upgrade to 7 last month, so I get to wait till later this month when they release the free ones for those of us w/in the proper time frame.

Anyway, it looks very nice from the docs they've released. Seems like they may have finally moved a long way towards making it more useful in an audio environment. I've been looking forward to dropping the 5 or so ridiculous hoops you have to jump thru move audio files around...


Sep.12.2007 @ 2:29 PM
Chris Randall
Wow. They're selling the beta. That's unnerving.

Go, Apple. Charging you to test for them. I think I'm gonna try to talk Adam in to that model. It would shorten our dev cycle considerably.



Sep.12.2007 @ 3:01 PM
Jeff C
I'm happy that they're getting rid of the dongle.

- J


Sep.12.2007 @ 3:05 PM
"I think I'm gonna try to talk Adam in to that model. It would shorten our dev cycle considerably."

Aw, but then I wouldn't feel like the cool kid getting AD stuff before everyone else.

The coolest thing to me with the new Logic is that it's pretty cheap. $500 for Logic, with all its bells and whistles (albeit several years old bells and whistles with most of the fx and instruments) plus two more useful and complete apps strikes me as a really good deal.


Sep.12.2007 @ 3:37 PM
Chris Randall
You could still get it first, Steve. You'd just have to pay for it. ;-)

I agree that Logic 8 represents excellent value for the money. Of the major DAWs, it definitely comes with the most complete set of tools. Live is the most friendly, of course, and Cubendo is arguably the best with workflow. DP is impenetrable, but has a few nice instruments included, ProTools is, well, a gussied-up tape deck, like it always was. I have next to no experience with Sonar, so I can't speak to that. Of them all, Logic certainly has the best instruments and included effects (Cubase 4's included plugins are essentially unusable in a professional situation, and Live's are really mostly toys, no offense.) Live is essentially useless in a studio due to the lack of PDC for external effects. I haven't examined Logic 8 closely enough to see if they added this most obvious of things, but Cubase is the hands-down winner in this department, which is, I'll point out, a fairly important department.

I personally have two problems with Logic, and these haven't changed at all:

1) Motherfucking cocksucking useless AudioUnit bullshit fuck shit cocksucker.

2) The workflow doesn't fit my brainwaves. It used to, c. Logic 5, but then I came over to the Dark Side.

But, as I said, if you're a Logic 7 user, almost none of what you've been asking for has been addressed, but it's still a very nice upgrade from what was a complete clusterfuck.



Sep.12.2007 @ 3:51 PM
"But, as I said, if you're a Logic 7 user, almost none of what you've been asking for has been addressed, but it's still a very nice upgrade from what was a complete clusterfuck."

What have Logic 7 users been asking for? Everything that seriously bugged me about logic has been addressed, other than maybe a vastly improved exs24... how *well* they've been addressed remains to be seen, though.


Sep.12.2007 @ 4:13 PM
Chris Randall
Did the fact that there was no PDC on busses not bug you? External effects as inserts? The mute and solo buttons in the mixer and the arrange window not being connected? MIDI to insert effects?

How 'bout the fair-to-middling audio engine?

As far as I can tell, this is essentially a major facelift and a major workflow improvement, but not much else. If the workflow was where most of your annoyances lay, then you're in heaven. But almost nothing in the underlying structure of the engine and its way of groping the UI has been changed.

Logic has always been, and will always be, the absolute best MIDI sequencer money can buy, but as an audio recording and mixing tool, it has fallen far behind its competitors, sorry to say. Now that I've spent the entire day with it, it's easy to tell nothing has changed beyond the UI.



Sep.12.2007 @ 4:17 PM
Speaking of DAW's, I've always wondered what's your opinion of Samplitude/Sequoia, Chris? You always have refreshingly blunt opinions of things. Personally I can't stand Logic at all. Drives me insane, too many little things to list. Maybe better now in version 8, though...

As a long time Samplitude user I have to say that if they took few of the new features of 9 and creeped them in to version... oh, say 7, I'd be happier than I was now. A definite feature bloat is in the horizon... But I can't change DAW anymore. After years and years of working in a certain way with Samplitude, I can't wrap my head around other DAWs anymore. I just can't live without object based effects, aux sends and generally the whole object oriented workflow. The effect routings I do are nuts and impossible in any other DAW as far as I know.


Sep.12.2007 @ 4:20 PM
Chris Randall
Personally, I'd rather gouge my left eye out with a rusty nail than use Samplitude for even 1 minute. How's that for refreshingly blunt? I want my DAW to act like a recording studio, because that's where I learned. This is also my main issue with DP. It just Doesn't Make Sense.



Sep.12.2007 @ 4:32 PM
Hah! I can see where you're coming from quite clearly, Samplitude doesn't quite work like that. And yep, blunt enough, although I'd call that more towards "sharp" end.

But that's the opposite backgrounds, I learned my stuff from software side (I mostly work in graphical department, usually designing GUI's ect...). It drives me nuts when I have to deal with limitations of hardware, like programming any hardware synth drives me up the wall. It could be SO much more easier, yet I've been known to spend days in front of Machine Drum or Monomachine staring at that tiny infuriating LCD - maybe I'm just masochistic. It's all about perspective, I suppose.


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